Comments on: PS3 Programming for Possession http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/ PS3 News and Views Fri, 05 Dec 2008 13:22:01 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5 by: francois http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1127 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 16:46:12 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1127 I think that PS2 programmers are already familliar with that programming paradigm. They certainly need to think parallel processing when writing code for PS2's Vector processing units. If my memory is good, they had 3 VPU where they could store routine (16KB max) to perform parallel operation. That is why the PS2 was banned in some contry for its super computer virtue, probably only because it featured parallel processing capabilities. Let's not forget, there is bright people in the computer science industry, and new hardware always end up being push to the limit by programmers no matter how hard it is. I think that PS2 programmers are already familliar with that programming paradigm. They certainly need to think parallel processing when writing code for PS2’s Vector processing units. If my memory is good, they had 3 VPU where they could store routine (16KB max) to perform parallel operation. That is why the PS2 was banned in some contry for its super computer virtue, probably only because it featured parallel processing capabilities.

Let’s not forget, there is bright people in the computer science industry, and new hardware always end up being push to the limit by programmers no matter how hard it is.

]]> by: shift http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1121 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 02:33:27 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1121 interesting read. i'll believe it, though, when i see it in action. there's too much speculation to draw out a fair conclusion... interesting read. i’ll believe it, though, when i see it in action. there’s too much speculation to draw out a fair conclusion…

]]> by: Henning http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1120 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 01:16:30 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1120 I'm not saying there won't be teething pains. But it is possible, and not rocket science. And this is something that Xbox 360 programmers will have to learn as well. If developers want a leg up, they can hire some Mac game programmers who've had more than one core/CPU for several years now. I’m not saying there won’t be teething pains. But it is possible, and not rocket science. And this is something that Xbox 360 programmers will have to learn as well. If developers want a leg up, they can hire some Mac game programmers who’ve had more than one core/CPU for several years now.

]]> by: Black Guy http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1119 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:29:53 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1119 Henning: Point taken. But regarding multithreaded programming being around for decades; maybe it has but it hasn't really been employed in video games (from what I've read.) Question: Wasn't the Sega Saturn the first multithreaded multi CPU system? It didn't do well cuz developers shyed away from its complexity even though it was supposedly a very powerful system for its time. Henning: Point taken. But regarding multithreaded programming being around for decades; maybe it has but it hasn’t really been employed in video games (from what I’ve read.) Question: Wasn’t the Sega Saturn the first multithreaded multi CPU system? It didn’t do well cuz developers shyed away from its complexity even though it was supposedly a very powerful system for its time.

]]> by: Black Guy http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1118 Tue, 31 Jan 2006 00:24:05 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1118 iCan not understand why someone always has to draw a comparison between consoles and PC; maybe I'm missing something but its really stupid. X360 and PS3 will hold a slight edge for about a year (if that) but PC's will ALWAYS be better no matter how advance a console is. A rig that can perform at the theoretical level of X360 and PS3 will cost about $3K easily. Almost a 1/3 of the price being the gfx card. Its like trying to compare a 90hp Honda Civic to a 16 cylinder exoctic sports car. It just doesn't work. The latest ATI card - the XT1900- is suppose to b comparable to the X360 theoretical performace. The MSRP for the lowest card is almost $600. Lets add a dual core AMD for $1000, .... How much does a X360 cost... iThink $299.99 iCan not understand why someone always has to draw a comparison between consoles and PC; maybe I’m missing something but its really stupid. X360 and PS3 will hold a slight edge for about a year (if that) but PC’s will ALWAYS be better no matter how advance a console is.

A rig that can perform at the theoretical level of X360 and PS3 will cost about $3K easily. Almost a 1/3 of the price being the gfx card. Its like trying to compare a 90hp Honda Civic to a 16 cylinder exoctic sports car. It just doesn’t work.

The latest ATI card - the XT1900- is suppose to b comparable to the X360 theoretical performace. The MSRP for the lowest card is almost $600. Lets add a dual core AMD for $1000, …. How much does a X360 cost… iThink $299.99

]]> by: aperson http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1117 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 22:19:50 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1117 you know what line gets me? "“The graphics capabilities of PS3 will, I think, be slightly above the absolutely top-end graphics cards on the PC" If it's going to be only slightly above, then will PC gaming already go leaps and bounds over PS3 next year? Otherwise, its a good read and nice to know its not as hard as people say it is to program for the PS3. you know what line gets me?

““The graphics capabilities of PS3 will, I think, be slightly above the absolutely top-end graphics cards on the PC”

If it’s going to be only slightly above, then will PC gaming already go leaps and bounds over PS3 next year?

Otherwise, its a good read and nice to know its not as hard as people say it is to program for the PS3.

]]> by: Henning http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1116 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 21:35:58 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1116 As a programmer myself, I have to respectfully disagree. Knowing an API well, before even touching a new system, gives you a big advantage. And your remark about queues is ridiculous. You don't need to lock all the SPE's in order to lock the small little routine to add a task to a queue. Two tasks coming to a queue is a trivial matter to solve. And while multithreaded programming is one of the more difficult aspects of programming in general, it is by no means unknown territory. We've been doing it for decades. As a programmer myself, I have to respectfully disagree. Knowing an API well, before even touching a new system, gives you a big advantage. And your remark about queues is ridiculous. You don’t need to lock all the SPE’s in order to lock the small little routine to add a task to a queue. Two tasks coming to a queue is a trivial matter to solve. And while multithreaded programming is one of the more difficult aspects of programming in general, it is by no means unknown territory. We’ve been doing it for decades.

]]> by: Black Guy http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1115 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 20:18:35 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1115 "Frankly, as a programmer, I find this fairly ridiculous. 3D APIs like DirectX and OpenGL are trivial to learn. Just like a college CS grad can't program Word or Oracle just because he knows C++, it doesn't mean that you can get maximum performance just because it uses the same toolset. More importantly, multithreaded programming is one of the most difficult problems in computer science. Take the "job queue" for example. What happens when two SPEs hit the queue at the exact same time? Its terribly inefficient to have two doing the same task. More problematically, they may alter the value twice- your ammo goes down two bullets instead of one. One common solution to this is "locking" on the queue, such that access happens serially (i.e. one at a time). However, that causes other SPEs to sit around waiting for things to do as they wait in line for another job. I'm simplifying things here just to illustrate a point. Next-gen programming is hard (the same problems are on the Xbox 360, PC, Mac and most likely the Revolution). As we reach the limits of Moore's Law, we need to be more creative to push the technological envelope." “Frankly, as a programmer, I find this fairly ridiculous. 3D APIs like DirectX and OpenGL are trivial to learn. Just like a college CS grad can’t program Word or Oracle just because he knows C++, it doesn’t mean that you can get maximum performance just because it uses the same toolset.

More importantly, multithreaded programming is one of the most difficult problems in computer science. Take the “job queue” for example. What happens when two SPEs hit the queue at the exact same time? Its terribly inefficient to have two doing the same task. More problematically, they may alter the value twice- your ammo goes down two bullets instead of one. One common solution to this is “locking” on the queue, such that access happens serially (i.e. one at a time). However, that causes other SPEs to sit around waiting for things to do as they wait in line for another job.

I’m simplifying things here just to illustrate a point. Next-gen programming is hard (the same problems are on the Xbox 360, PC, Mac and most likely the Revolution). As we reach the limits of Moore’s Law, we need to be more creative to push the technological envelope.”

]]> by: FreeThoughts » PS3: facile da programmare http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1111 Mon, 30 Jan 2006 17:06:15 +0000 http://www.ps3blog.net/2006/01/30/ps3-programming-for-possession/#comment-1111 [...] E’ PS3Blog ad affermarlo. E lo fa basandosi su un’intervista apparsa su Official PlayStation 2 magazine, fatta ad uno degli sviluppatori di Possesion, un horror previsto per la nuova console Sony. Quello che si evince dall’articolo, è che PS3 usa le Open GL, uno standard ben conosciuto. Ci sono manuali e un sacco di scritti che parlano di questa tecnologia, di come funziona. Il che fa dedurre che la programmazione del 3D sulla nuova console, sia molto più semplice di quanto non lo fosse prima sulla PS2. Inoltre, il chip RSX della scheda video nVidia usa un linguaggio per la Cg shader, che è uno standard che in molti conoscono. Non è un’esclusiva Sony. Vengon poi citate le parole di Lyndon Homewood, programmatore su PS3: “The graphics capabilities of PS3 will, I think, be slightly above the absolutely top-end graphics cards on the PC, but you’ve got much more processing power in the box so you’re going to see a lot more physics, a lot more generated geometry. With water ripples, for example - they’re pretty much algorithms, you have a flat plane of triangles and you run some sort of mathematical algorithm over it to generate a surface rippling effect - well, you will have the processing power to do these sorts of generated geometry effects On PS3. You could actually put one chip aside just to do that…” [...] […] E’ PS3Blog ad affermarlo. E lo fa basandosi su un’intervista apparsa su Official PlayStation 2 magazine, fatta ad uno degli sviluppatori di Possesion, un horror previsto per la nuova console Sony. Quello che si evince dall’articolo, è che PS3 usa le Open GL, uno standard ben conosciuto. Ci sono manuali e un sacco di scritti che parlano di questa tecnologia, di come funziona. Il che fa dedurre che la programmazione del 3D sulla nuova console, sia molto più semplice di quanto non lo fosse prima sulla PS2. Inoltre, il chip RSX della scheda video nVidia usa un linguaggio per la Cg shader, che è uno standard che in molti conoscono. Non è un’esclusiva Sony. Vengon poi citate le parole di Lyndon Homewood, programmatore su PS3: “The graphics capabilities of PS3 will, I think, be slightly above the absolutely top-end graphics cards on the PC, but you’ve got much more processing power in the box so you’re going to see a lot more physics, a lot more generated geometry. With water ripples, for example - they’re pretty much algorithms, you have a flat plane of triangles and you run some sort of mathematical algorithm over it to generate a surface rippling effect - well, you will have the processing power to do these sorts of generated geometry effects On PS3. You could actually put one chip aside just to do that…” […]

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