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No Damage in Gran Turismo 5? |

Reader derrickgott007 had a little PM conversation with one of the GT devs (skebe) over at the official PlayStation Forums.

It sent something like this:

derrickgott007: People are already exploting the no damage to ruin the leaderboards….There are videos on Youtube on how to get 1.07min lap times by fence riding and going full speed into the turns to riccoceht off the fence….Please put in damage to stop these people.

skebe: Sorry for not being able to respond earlier… didn’t know until today that this forum had a PM feature

Although we’re not ready to implement damage until they can be shown in a truly authentic way (which is extremely hard work if you think about it), we are doing our best to avoid these kind of ‘cheating’ to take place.

derrickgott007: I understand what you are saying about the hard work…..But FORZA 2 has damage, and so does the TOCA series…If GT5 had damage it would be UNSTOPPABLE.

skebe: No I mean, really really really hard work… to the extent of creating another game, almost. From our standards, what other racing games are doing is ‘simplified damage’. You know how **bleep** we are when making our games… we would want to simulate every single dent differently

Gran Turismo HD Concept

Ah well, too bad. Can’t have it all I guess. But I think than Gran Turismo 5 for the PS3 will still be a fun game…

  • This doesnt prove anything, does it?

    I mean he does neither confirm nor deny damage at all, does he?

  • You’re right. But it’s heavily implied.

    Which may just be a trick….

    But who knows?

  • Darrin

    Who cares about damage? You get that in spades with games like MotorStorm and Burnout.

    If you want to simulate hyper-realistic physics, realistic lap times, with an amazing number of options and attention to detail, play GT.

    If you want to simulate spectacular crashes, driving into oncoming traffic, driving off of a giant cliff, or running people over, play Burnout or MotorStorm.

    Honestly, though, I *do* want to see the game evolve. I feel like the fundamental concept of Gran Turismo has been done before. We’ve played it already. Sure, the new ones will add all kinds of online features and dramatically better graphics, and it’s still a must-buy title, but it’s still the same general game experience.

  • HachiRoku

    Well, I think it has something to do with the licensed companies not wanting their cars to appear damaged – or something to that affect (from the old rumblings in the GT2 days). Regardless, like Darrin said, if you want the crashes, then play those games WITH THOSE CRASHES – they do it in much more spectacular fashion as well!
    I personally love GT for its authenticity to the real driving experience. I absolutely HATE driving games that slow the car down 10-20kph because I’m slightly off track, and must go on the grass. That NEVER happens in real life, as anyone who has ever driven a real car on a race track can attest to. The GT series is about the real feeling of driving, and it delivers that experience in spades!

  • HachiRoku

    Oh, one more thing…
    How do we know that this “skebe” character is real? I thought everyone at Polyphony Digital were Japanese??
    Personally, I’m a little skeptical with this PM exchange…

  • François

    A good GT player will spent 99% of his time on track, avoiding any kind of collision, so I don’t see why the developper would spent effort implementing damage on the car. I would rather have more detailled graphic and physic and plenty of game mode (online for ex). However I aggree that, if true, the cheat described above should be fixed when GT is released and the same would apply if a another player hit you (I think it is implemented this way in toca 3 on PC, you hit another car and you get a time penality).

  • ehandlr

    HachiRoku hit the nail on the head. It was announced back around GT2 that the car companies are very against having their virtual cars damaged. Since so much depends on first hand experience with these multi-million dollar cars, they are stuck listening to the manufacturers.

  • MetalProxy

    Iam not sure if the car companies care if the cars get damaged. They get destroyed in movies all the time (The Matrix). This isnt a destruction derby game, its racing. I havent been convenced that the vehicle damage is good enough anyways. The only thing Iam worried about in GT is online play.

  • derrickgott007

    Haicroku, I gave Henning links to prove that skebe is legit…. Also, Damage IS needed in a game like GT….becuase using AI cars as “corner helpers” and bouncing off the AI cars should have a negative impact, heightning the realism. I don’t want burnout, but I do at least want to have consequences for wrecking…

    ehandlr, explain this to me, why can FORZA 2 have damage…Those are real cars..arent they?? They have damage in the TOCA series, and those are real cars…so your point falls flat.

    Franchois, so you are saying that NASCAR 08 shouldnt have damage either? Because a real racer should be avoiding a collision. ..blah blah blah…

    Come on people…damage is a part of racing.. If you bump into someone and get a fender rub, then you need to pit…thats part of racing….If you lose it in a corner and you back the car into the fence and lose your spoiler, then you will not have downforce…thats part of racing…DAMAGE IS NEEDED….

    Here is my open call to Polyphony Digital…..”If you say you are making the car/race/driving simulator to be all, end all, then give us all…..stop short changing us.”

  • I would be a little miffed, if damage was omitted, to be honest.

    GT is THE biggest racing game of all time (no Forza or PGR come even close to the massiveness of this game), and yet it has some pet peeves, which they should be able to deal with, harnessing the power of the PS3. I mean, look at games like Motorstorm. This was a launch title (EU^^ I am German!) and it has massive crashing effects. Ripping your chassis and car body apart should be no problem at all. The driving physics in GT were always great, but the rest (crashing AI and whatnot) was subpar, to say the least. Ever tried crashing two cars full frontal at 300km/h? You know what happens? Both cars slow down!! Not even the slightest hint of them getting airtime, NOTHING! This is what I always hated about GT. I love this game, I played thru GT4 to over 85% (you cannot force me to drive 24h on the Nürburgring, mind you, not even with B-Spec!) twice (killed my first savegame), got all licences and whatnot.

    Even freakishly old games like Grand Prix 2 or Grand Prix Legends had car damage (these games were 3dfx Voodoo era) done pretty well, yet they arent able to pull it off on the PS3? Come on, we pay 62€ per game!! (even more, considering DLC)

  • Nick

    I agree that damage should be implemented AS IT IS PART OF THE RACING EXPERIENCE.

    Or, have you guys ever seen a race where no fenders are bent, suspensions damaged, spoilers falling off?

    This becomes even more critical if online play is going to be implemented. Just imagine some noob joining a race and using you as a corner helper. So by what the dev is saying, the noobs car will slow down only to try it again on the next lap??

    I understand that the guys at polyphony like to be perfectionists, but just to say we wont do it just because we cant do it perfect is nonsense. Other games have been doing it for years. Sure maybe its not perfect but at least you know that if you ram your car into a barrier or other car at 300kph your racing time is done, period. no lame 5 second slowdown.

  • You should note that I did hyperlink Skebe’s name to an article through which you can track down his credentials.

  • ehandlr

    I won’t miss damage at all. I’ve yet to see a racing game that impliments it factually. If you crash at 200+ miles per hour head on…not only will your car be destroyed…but most likely you will be dead…and that would end your career…but games wont’ do that. So they just put you in a brand new car a few seconds behind from where you were.

    GT has always been a simulator, but not just a racing simulator. They have always tuned each car as practical and realistic to the real car. Many people have derived ideas of what a cool car might be and what they would buy in real life from this game.

    Call me crazy when I say that..but this game made me love Lancers and Skylines.

  • Matt

    damage is a must for me. If I drive like an idiot I should be penalized for it. I still remeber GT 1 and using the guard rail to get a faster track time. I could drive realistic but I want the top time so when friends come over to play they have a hard time beating my time. I don’t care if every dent isn’t perfect. Just do something to the car so it doesn’t perform the way it should.

    This would make a top track time even more impressive when the huge factor of damage is taken into consideration.

    Lets hope it gets in the game.

  • francois

    derrickgott007: I play GT in first person so I don’t mind about how my car look likes when damaged. However you are right when you say “damage is a part of racing” and when collision occurs, it should affect the car performance. Visual car damage would be a great addition to the game but for me it is not essential.

  • ehandlr

    Most sports cars would get destroyed with a simple bumper tap factually. Hell look at Eddie Griffit and what he did to a Ferrari Enzo at 25 mph. He completely totalled it. Imagine 160+ mph.

    The game would have the same crash for every car and it simply wouldn’t work like that in real life.

  • Gibb

    what about a simple time penalty depending on how hard you hit a fence/tree/rock?
    this should at least rule out the cheating.

  • In my opinion, the looks dont matter much. A “simple” real collision like in Burnout or Motorstorm for me is enough. My problem is, when I crash into a wall (Seattle Track, U-Turns) with high speed, my car just stops. It does not roll over, it just stops dead. This REALLY kills the immersion. Even Need for Speed ONE addressed this (still the BEST in the series, by FAR). And yes, if I crash hard into an opponent or into a wall, the race is simply OVER (if damage is turned on), thats it. When playing F1 on my Amiga or later with the PC, I always drove with damage turned on! This adds MUCH tension in longer races and this way adds fun for those who want it (it must be switchable though).

  • ehandlr

    but what about selling and upgrading your cars? Remember GT is much more then a simple racing game. Do you have to repair your cars? Do you sell them for scrap?

  • MetalProxy

    Since we are worried about damage, well what about the vehicles engine. Lets say a waterpump goes out and pours antfreeze on the track, causing others to crash and your car to over heat. How about the alternator goes out or maybe a leaky tire and you have to pit.

  • PSNID=Lifendz

    So wait, you can play as different cars in this demo? Cuz I’m limited to just one crappy little suzuki something.

  • Yes?

    Try to beat 2 minutes with the first car, then the next one gets unlocked and so on…

  • 360fanboy

    hey hey…
    this post is WRONG!

    the tittle would be so true if it was “NO DAMAGE AND STILL NO STEERING IN GRAN TURISMO 5”
    ppl wake up!
    this **** its not steer!!
    i was playin this crap at a friend’s ps3 and i had a mitsubishi evo lancer…k?
    so i was driving with like 60km and i couldnt steer..and thats not cuz im stupid or w/e…its cuz GT series were so rubish!

    and hey ps3 fans…u can keep this exclusive tittle for ya only!we got forza 2….prepare to see the real simulator…not fake and cheap rally games like GT5!
    Jump in!

    [Henning: Edited for bad language. Note that I am not responsible for bad grammar.]

  • HachiRoku

    Yikes… the last few days have been pretty pleasant without a peep from idiot fanboys. But then this happens… *sigh*

    Can’t the moderator just EDIT OUT fanboy rubbish? It’s kind of like graffiti on a wall. After you clean it up enough times, and the fanboy returns and doesn’t see his “work” anymore, they will eventually just stop posting in vain.

  • Sporty


    This game has had over a million downloads. And your the only one that can’t control it?

    Sounds like most of your problems are user error. Maybe take yourself back to your parents and see if you can get exchanged. 😛

  • HachiRoku: if it gets out of hand I do delete the posts. But every once in a while isn’t too bad. I don’t like to be heavy-handed if I can help it. But if this post becomes a flame war I’ll definitely start deleting…

  • ehandlr

    Gran Turismo > your favorite racing game…. lol j/k Its name speaks for itself. If the graphics are anything like the demo, then Forza will be in trouble.

  • Sporty

    I wouldn’t be surprised if GT5 had no damage, considering the history. However GT5 is still pretty early in development. It was October when they switched from GT:HD to GT5.

    Most of the questions were asked about GT:HD’s damage being used for cheating with a GT5 question thrown in at the end. So who knows.

    Call me crazy but it seems like at this early stage they could just throw a second unit onto crash physics and develop in parallel.

    Either way, I’m kinda burnt out on racing atm. I have more racing game on my PS3 then I did the whole time on PS2. Gripshift, GT:HD, F1, Motorstorm and Ridge racer 7. Before my PS3 I only picked up GT3 and Burnout for 360 since PS2’s launch. I’m sure I’ll grab GT5 anyways but I’m not in a hurry right now.

    I’m just dying for more action, adventure and RPGs right now.

  • junk56

    This article is wayyyy to skeptical so i’m not gonna even consider this news. If Kazunori and his die-hard team said that GTHD will have damage, i won’t doubt there will be damage. I put my trust on polyphony digital and Sony, not an online conversation that is very skeptical.

  • I think if you are making a race SIMULATOR, there should be damage. Plowing into a wall at 160mph shouldn’t just harmlessly bounce me off the wall. With all of these interactive areas, and crazy realistic effects, damage to vehicles shouldn’t be excluded.

  • Croco

    I agree fully…until a GT game addresses this issue and allows cars to be damaged…I’m sorry, but the Ultimate Driving Simulator it ain’t. I’m a big Forza Motorsport fan and was satisfied with the damage modeling. Of course, our biggest gripe in the early stages of development for Forza 2 was whether or not we could be able to flip cars; I don’t know if that’ll EVER happen, but the guys at Polyphony could at least learn from the guys at Turn 10 about damage modeling and dynamics. Who knows…maybe they’ll one-up them with an even better damage model and effects than Forza.

  • Stevo

    I think GT 5 will be awesome, i mean i’ve played GT4….it’s quite nice, but yet again, for some reason, i also think that GT4 screwed up a little bit when it comes to turning the cars on tracks, they made turning so complicated where the car easily just locks and drags you to the corner, i mean you really have to slow down so much, and then turn, i hope to see changes in GT5, and otherwise GT is a nice game manufacture, so i’m just waiting to check out GT5

  • JC

    If no damage then they could at least implement some sort of crash physics. Playing the prologue demo, the cars bounce off each other like wooden blocks. This is not realistic at all, crashes should simulate the shock absorption of the cars, even if they cannot be bothered to do the polygon work.

    I think this is also testimony to their development approach, which is one of the reasons that the game runs so smoothly. the car models themselves are done by designers, not programmers, and (if you look at kokatu’s tour of the studio), the car models are designed as one shell unit, not as individual parts, hence it is a lot of work to split them up and model the impact on them individually.

    On the other hand, Codemasters’ DIRT has crash modeling but this was achieved using a 3rd party tool – perhaps polyphony could drop their pride levels a little and succumb to using a third party tool as well – just to remain competitive.

  • JS

    Good news, the patch is coming to get rid of those idiots bouncing off the wall! it will no doubtidly be used in the full game when its released – take that m$ fanboys

  • my brother will surely be interested in this..

  • It´s not one of my most favorite games. But I know some guys who play it all day long. Why not…

  • Honestly I could care less. I love playing the game, it’s a blast and will continue to play whether there is “real” damage or not.