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A 360, Halo 3, and PS3 Conversation |

Here’s a conversation Gary and I had this morning via chat. I thought it might be a good starting place for a discussion. We started by talking about Halo 3 at 640p. The conversation below starts where I defend Bungie, noting that this is their first 360 title (I think). I’ve edited it for clarity…


Henning said:

I assume this is [Bungie’s] first 360 title.

Shime Waza said:

Heavenly Sword isn’t a great game, it’s good but it’s graphics are astounding for a game released during it’s (the PS3) first year. You’d think Bungie would be given preferential treatment by MS though. Seeing as Halo 3 is their only big franchise. They would do everything in their power to give them as much help as possible in getting the 360’s power into Halo 3

Henning said:

Okay, I’ve found some other sources for the news…

Shime Waza says:

Back to my view that 360 is hitting it’s peak. Halo 3 is their single biggest first party franchise and the game they have touted to kill the PS3 (well so say the xbots). Apart from Mass Effect and PGR4 (which won’t sell a load of 360s), they have no exclusive games to blow people away with. They only have that marketing BS with the GTA IV downloadable content. So what can the 360 offer to would be buyers in the form of exclusive games and content? Not a lot compared to the PS3. They have had an easy year and a half to build a lead, sales wise, but the PS3 IS ALREADY CATCHING UP WITH QUALITY CONTENT, then next year THE big EXCLUSIVE games arrive on PS3 and that is when sales (along with a proper price drop) will take off. Here’s a good read related to the Halo 3 phenomenon.

Henning says:

Bioshock is big. Is Halo 3 at 60FPS ?

Shime Waza says:

It hasn’t sold 360s though.

Henning says:

Killzone 2 will only be 30FPS.

Shime Waza says:

I dunno what fps Halo 3 is.

Henning says:

Hmm. [After a web search on “Halo 3” and “30fps”.] Looks like it’s 30FPS. That makes the 640p all the worse….

Shime Waza says:

My point is that MS and Xbots believed Halo3 would boost 360 sales and kill off the PS3 (by that I mean give the 360 an unassailable sales lead), but they haven’t got the range of games that the PS3 has. Bioshock is great but it’s on PC as well.

Henning says:

True enuf.

Shime Waza says:

The PS3 has some big franchises that are first party or exclusive and these games WILL boost sales over a long period of time.

Henning says:

Halo 3 will boost 360 sales, but not by a significant amount.

Shime Waza says:

Like I said I believe the 360 is hitting it’s peak. The majority of forthcoming releases will appeal to people who already own a 360. The same is in reverse for the PS3.

Henning says:

GT5, Final Fantasy, and MGS4 can’t come soon enough. Hopefully Sony won’t let those exclusives fall through their fingers…. (Well, obviously GT5 won’t….)

Shime Waza says:

Don’t downplay games like SingStar, Ratchet, Resistance 2. God of War 3, PlayStation Eye games aswell.

Henning says:

But those aren’t the BIG ones. SingStar is big in Europe, but it’s nothing here.

Shime Waza says:

All will appeal to PS2 owners waiting to make the move and casual gamers. Europe is still vital though. As is Japan.

Henning says:

Not saying it ain’t.

Shime Waza says:

WORLDWIDE sales are more important than JUST NA that’s MS’s problem.

Henning says:

But the three titles I mention I think are the ones that’ll cause people to go out and buy PS3’s in droves.

Shime Waza says:

Definitely but the other titles I mentioned will appeal to a wider audience and MS can’t compete with that.

Henning says:


Shime Waza says:

Wider means casual as well as undecided PS2 owners

Henning says:


Shime Waza says:

Exactly. God of War 3 would be MASSIVE in NA. Look at GoW 2. That would sell PS3s.

Henning says:

Yes. But it’s a hardcode gamer game. Not a widen-the-audience game.

Shime Waza says:

But it would still sell PS3s. Guaranteed.


And that’s where the conversation turned to the PSP etc. Where do you guys see 360 and PS3 sales going in the near to mid future?

  • Note that we’re not saying Halo 3 isn’t a good game. My friends and I are going to be playing Halo 3 on my friend’s huge 92″ screen soon, and I expect to have a good time. This conversation wasn’t about how fun Halo 3 is or will be. It was about the 640p issue, Halo 3’s effect on 360 sales, and stuff like that.

  • 92″ screen! ๐Ÿ˜ฏ

  • ehandlr

    There is no single game that will break a console. Someone on Neogaf posted an interesting article about the 360 and many other consoles with big game names. Basically it states that if Halo sells as many as its predecessors have, that will come out to be around a 50% penetration rate. No other game in recent history has obtained over 30% regardless of how large or small the potential consumer group was.

    With a penetration rate that high, it points that the 360 could very well be a niche market with niche consumers therefore eliminating any possible huge sporadic growths in the console hardware sales.

    I’ll steal the numbers from neogaf. They may not be 100% accurate, but they get the point across.

    Xbox: Halo 2, 9.2 million units vs. a base of ~22 million: ~42% of users

    Gamecube: Smash Bros Melee, 6 million units vs. a base of ~20 million: 30% of users

    PS2: GTA Vice City, 13 million units vs. a base of 120+ million: 10.8% of users

    N64: Super Mario 64, 11 million units vs. a base of ~32 million: ~34% of users

    Playstation: Gran Turismo, 10.5 million vs. a base of 100+ million: 10.5% of users

    (Xbox 360: Halo 3 , 2 million(NA numbers only) vs a base of 10 million in less then a week. This could very easily hit 5 million very shortly when other regions launch)

  • I’m finally getting mine at the end of october. I admit I love the PS3, but I didn’t want to buy a PS3 when I didn’t already own a nice flatscreen FullHD tv set
    I’ll buy both. I’m still undecided on the audio part so if any of you wish to enlighten me on that matter, just send me a mail. It will be highly appreciated ๐Ÿ™‚

  • Well, I personally love FPS games, but never got on with Halo or Halo 2 – I found them quite tedious, and never bothered completing either. So the 3rd in the series is of no interest, and certainly wouldn’t sell me a 360.

    So far, the ONLY game I’ve been interested in on 360 is Gears – but I wouldn’t buy a system for one game, and certainly not a system with so many reliability issues.

    Bad experiences with my original Xbox put me off getting a 360 initially, to see how it went. Then with the reports of failing systems, I decided to wait for the PS3. To be honest, it’s not a decision I’m regretting, and I don’t expect I ever will.

  • iFlash

    Wishful thinking on my part — Sony is mostly quiet these days and I hope its for good reasons. Some products maybe in the pipe to change the PS3s out look. Like you fellas said GOW3 will sell and they are hush about it. SOCOM4 and just the socom coming soon just to hold people over will be huge for them. All the old socom junkies(me) will run to that. What I really hope for is better PR and Sony showing off the brand. MS advertises so well and I think thats why Halo3 did so well.

  • MeeToo

    It’s true: if you haven’t play Halo 1 & 2, you’ll probably never never understand how Halo 3 as a very amazing game. If you will try to play Halo 1 or 2 right now for the first time, it will probably bore you. But for me, 6 years ago, Halo 1 was not just an FPS for me. IT WAS better than Half-life and way better than Doom.

    I mean common: 17 million people can’t be wrong for buying in ONE day this Halo 3. They bought it because they ENJOYED both the previous Halos.

    I will but it, not because I enjoyed Halo 1 & 2… I will but it simply because I heard and saw the REVIEWS that it is Good.

    Another game that’s on my list is Bioshock. Why it’s on my list? Because I heard so much of it… and I go read reviews.

    I can’t play it right now because honestly: I DON”T have X360 yet. I i’m affraid of the reliability issue: specifically the RROD which I heard couse by the heat. One MS solved this (65nm). I’ll start buying… Heck it will be cheaper then.

    Yeah… not all sequels are good… example of bad sequels is Doom 3.

    This is still basically PS3 vs X360 fight… which I admit… I really enjoy.

    Whose winning… right now it’s X360. Though in Japan… 360 is nonexisting… but my language is english and Soul Calibur 4 is comming to 360… Not to mention DMC4.

    I don’t think this is the fight for exclusivity anymore. This is the fight for how many QUALITY games can MS deliver to X360.

  • MeeToo

    If we define quality games for having an 8.5+ score at Gamespot:

    PS3 has 10 games
    X360 has 27 games

    But that’s not exactly true… just an estimation. Which translate that you’ll enjoy X360 more than PS3.

  • MoLe

    30, 60, 120fps/hz. It doesn’t matter.

    Movies are only 24fps and we don’t walk out on them!

    For some fast movement a few more frames will help so 30fps is all we really need for almost anything. Can you really see the difference @60Hz, probably not much.

    Give me a clean accurate screen @ 30hz and I will still frag you every time.

  • MeeToo


    30, 60, 120fps/hz. It DOES matter !!!

    If you compare a game 30fps vs 60fps… you can clearly see the difference of the fluidity motion of 60fps.

    Movies are only at 24fps… but that because movies/film also capture the motion blur of each single image. Which gives the illusion of the fluid motion of an animation.

    Try to freeze the CGI of the Advent Children… and you’ll see that each image of 24fps has motion blur that resembles the action.

    Video games are not powerful enough to make this motion blur in realtime. Thus high FPS is nessesary to make the motion/animation fluid enough.

  • Beano

    Wow, I like the fact that Shime Waza talks about all the franchises Microsoft has and how he actually says they are big (but apparently not big enough to sell 360’s) then lists PS3 franchises like Ratchet, Resistance 2, and PlayStation Eye… Yep, they’re really going to sell PS3s, talk about games that make you want to buy the console. Only thing that will save the PS3 is cutting the price and maybe if Sony can get (and keep) exclusive rights to FF (haven’t kept up on FF news because I’m not a fan, but last I heard they were making content exclusive for the 360, Wii, and DS) and MGS4.

  • MeeToo: 17 million? Wow, I guess every Xbox 360 owner bought 1.7 copies of Halo 3.

    I don’t put too much stock in review scores except as a general indication. I mean really. How can you trust review scores when GameSpot gives Perfect Dark Zero a better score than Resistance (9.0 versus 8.6)? Anybody that’s played both of those games (like me!) knows that PDZ isn’t even in the same league as Resistance!

  • Sporty

    I actually played Halo, and Halo 2. Haven’t got H3 yet since I dont care about about. They weren’t better then Half Life imo. They were ok. first one was repetitive after a few hours with little replay value. Second one was just more of the same with MP that gave it more replay.

    One thing I dont understand (well two really. why a Halo 3 threat on this site for one) and the other is MeeToo’s statement.

    “17 million people canโ€™t be wrong for buying in ONE day this Halo 3.”

    Considering 17 million people is 3 times the size of the US 360 base is kinda funny. Take away 15 million from that number and your about right.

    Another thing, Both 360 and PS3 do motion blur well. solid 60 FPS gives a glossy polished look. 30FPS is ok, but closer to the point that if frame rate drops you can easily tell while playing. 60fps is better but I would rather have a solid frame rate on one then a fluxuating on the other. The reason movies are all 24 fps is that it’s locked, not rendered in real time.

    And Beano, looks like you haven’t been following the news too close. Neither MGS4 or Final Fantasy will come out on 360. MSG4 might hit PCs but that’s not confirmed, and FF13 and FF13vs was confirmed PS3 only by square.

  • ehandlr

    1.8 million Halo 3’s sold opening day. A far cry from 17 million indeed lol.

  • MeeToo

    17 million haha… my bad i was looking at the $170 million gross… It’s acutally 2.8 million.

    Re: Gamescore.

    Gamespot says that score also depends on the date of release.

    So the value of score they gave today (say 8.5) is higher that the game that score 8.5 last year.

    In short there’s acutally inflation in score too… but I didn’t include it in my calculation. Coz I don’t know exactly what’s the inflation rate of score.

  • ehandlr

    If the revenue is $170 million, then the number would have be to under 2.8 million sold. 170,000,000/60=2,833,333.3333333333333.

    Considering how many legendary editions sold…that brings that total number sold WAYYYYYYY down.

  • Matt

    Personally I see the 360 and PS3 battle raging for years with no clear cut winner like the past. Microsoft will keep introducing new IPs and marketing the hell out of it. Sony will pick up speed the cheaper the system becomes. Sony will also continue to create new IPs and try to grow their market.

    The great thing about the Wii is that casual gaming has become a major focus. Sony and Microsoft will not let this go without a fight. I suspect both companies will try to create lower profile games that only require a few buttons so games are not as intimidating. XBLA is working great for Microsoft and the basic arcade games for Sony are too (sorry I don’t know the exact name).

    Personally I hope that all three consoles sell about the same amount of systems. I like how each company approaches gaming because each appeal to the gamer that I am.

    I am very curious to see how this Xmas season goes. This could determine how game development money is spent by the big developers for the next wave of games.

    On a side note: Microsoft and Sony got their Alpha kits to developers about the exact same time. Beta kits also were only a few months apart. I cannot stand how people think the year release difference means development time was also a year different. The whole first wave and second wave thing is just funny. EA got the Beta kits from Microsoft 3 weeks before launch day (inside info but I think was also on the web). That is horrible. Sony on the other hand did not do that to their third party developers and gave them a few months.

    Last Generation on Xbox launch day, Halo: CE was far and away better than any game released on the PS2 to that day and also for quite a long time after. Hear we are a year after the year behinds launch and they still haven’t passed what the 360 can do. The PS3 might have better graphics than the 360, but I don’t think it will be the leaps and bounds difference of the last generation.

  • jwspiker

    for those who enjoy split screen. My roommate has the 360 and got halo 3, was possibly looking forward to playing 2 player co-op with some friends at another house. All for users must have a live account to do this!! This is completely a big pile of dung. and another reason why i’m not enjoying the 360 my roommate has. There maybe a way around this, but I just don’t get it. Let me sign into the same live account my other bud is using. Arg…

  • JimmyStewart

    Call my crazy but this little chat is extremely biased in favor of the PS3. I’m a proud owner of both systems and I have to say I disagree 100% with the article. In my opinion it seems that the PS3 is losing most of it’s exclusives (from the early exclusives like Virtua Fighter to big releases like UT3 and Devil May Cry 4) while the 360 hasn’t lost any real exclusives in my memory. And to make things worse the exclusives the 360 has are then glossed over… as though Halo 3 is the last great game coming to the console. I know it’s easy to forget last year and how Gears of War dominated software sales… and that a sequel is looming on the horizon. Yet you’re more than happy to reference a largely unconfirmed God of War sequel. MS is also making strides to appeal to the Japanese market with games like Ninja Gaiden 2 and Lost Odyssey. Sure they’ve got a ways to go but they’re getting closer at cracking the market with each release, not further away. Blue Dragon may not have been huge but it did spur more sales in Japan than should be so quickly overlooked.

    I love my PS3 and I can’t wait for some quality titles to come it’s way… but I’m sick of the insults to 360 owners as there are those of us who own both consoles… and of course some of us just wish to use common sense. Just because the great titles coming to the 360 don’t appeal to you, don’t take that to mean it has no great games. For example I have no desire to play Final Fantasy or GT. Those games seem entirely derivative and boring… yet I still understand that these will be big titles that other people will love and treasure. I myself am waiting for Kingdom Hearts 3 or God of War 3.

    Let’s not kid ourselves here. So far I’ve been compelled to pick up two PS3 titles. RFoM and Heavenly Sword… both of which were good games but hardly great. Those two games are the only ones I’ve been able to justify on this system. I’ve already picked up more 360 games in this month alone. I have a long list of titles I’m looking forward to picking up on the 360 in the future… while on the PS3 I’m still waiting for games that haven’t even been formally announced. I honestly can’t see anything on the horizon that’s all that exciting. I don’t mean to harp on the thing… I love my PS3. I think it’s a great system and it’s got a lot of potential. It’s been a great blu-ray player and I’m dying for an online store to rent movies. I’m thrilled with the LocoRoco PSN game and I think it’s a lot easier to use to stream media from my PC than the 360 is. But let’s not pretend it’s worth more than it is. It’s just a video game system guys… there’s no need to blindly try and promote it. It’s doing the console a disservice. It’s one thing to shamelessly pour love on your system… but it’s another to make baseless claims and attempt to drag another console through the mud. Why can’t we just love our consoles without feeling the need to belittle the other guys? It’s just as annoying as those “xbots” you always seem to complain about.

    Again, please, let’s try to show some balance guys.

  • JimmyStewart

    Oh and Henning, you said…
    “How can you trust review scores when GameSpot gives Perfect Dark Zero a better score than Resistance (9.0 versus 8.6)”
    I agree… one should never put one’s faith entirely in reviews under any circumstance. But what I do find helpful is using a site that collects reviews and gives you an average score. It still doesn’t mean that you’re going to like the game, after all personal taste is entirely subjective… but it does give a good indication as to the quality of a game and at least what people as a whole seem to think of it.

    For example right now on Metacritic PDZ is getting an 81 and Resistance is getting an 86. I myself happen to think both scores are a little higher… with PDZ getting the more generous score. But perhaps that’s due to the fact it was a launch game on a next gen system before there was any real competition.

    It is worth noting that both Bioshock and Halo 3 are receiving the highest scores for all games on all three consoles. This isn’t one opinion… this is the average. Tied with Halo 3 is Zelda on the Wii… and a few notches below is Oblivion on the PS3 (I own that one on the 360). What’s second on the PS3? An enhanced XBox 1 game, Ninja Gaiden. Whose sequel I might add is a 360 exclusive. Not the most compelling games by any means… so why can’t we just let this whole issue die. There’s load of great games out there… who cares what platform they’re on.

  • ehandlr

    UT3 was never a PS3 exclusive. Over the past few 6 months-ish, 360 has lost a buttload of exclusives to the PS3 abeit they are still timed exclusives i.e. Eternal Sonata with upgrades. Saints Row 2 will be on PS3, PS3 is getting an entirely new Katamari, can’t forget Oblivion, Fatal Inertia is coming back to the PS3.

    Ofcourse this is all just talk. We all know that devs are choosing a multiplatform route despite system preference for more money.

    And if you really want to bring it down to the wire..I can show you a 95% accurate exclusive list that I personally compiled of all 3 consoles that shows you the 360 is running in a distant 3rd place on exclusives.

    I own the 360, PS3, Wii, DS and PSP myself.

  • Dartmerc

    @ meto: “So the value of score they gave today (say 8.5) is higher that the game that score 8.5 last year.”

    I think what they mean is the oposite. Last year (2 years ago) Halo would have only got 7.5 for example.

    Basically, they take into consideration its still early in the console’s life.. well its supposed to be early in the consoles life, but the way M$ is going, it’ll outdate this wave of xbox’s in a year or so.

  • Dartmerc

    @Jimmy” know itโ€™s easy to forget last year and how Gears of War dominated software sales”

    The same thing could be said about HS. It’s dominted software sales vs other ps3 games release the same month. When there is no competition for a game, thats exactly what happens.

    And the point isn’t that PS3 is losing more exclusives then xbox2, it’s that the exclusives xbox2 has (appart from the few mentioned) are rather lame

  • MeeToo

    PS3 vs X360

    Can there be any peace?

    Well, for some of us who can’t afford two gaming system: there will be always a war. An xbox fan boy will troll anyone convincing his choice be better be a winner. But I like what u said @JimmyStuwart.

  • Wow, a LOT of really lengthy comments saying essentially either the PS3 is great or the 360 is great. Nothing new here.

    I’ll just write responses to what I have read her in list form in no particular order.

    1. Halo is a huge franchise, but you cant really trust attached rates. Saying halo 2 had a 42% attach rate doesn’t mean its universally appealing or anything, it means XBOX owners mostly were a specific type of gamer.

    2. That focused demographic of xbox doesnt seem to be changing much with the 360. Its still mostly shooters and macho games, with a token smattering of games representing the other genres. So of course if you make a game in that vein for the 360, its going to do well, because the people who own 360s want that. That is why Blue dragon didnt do well, its outside the taste of the 360 base, and its not compelling enough to bring in those who like that type of game .

    3. The PS3 does indeed have alot of high profile games to look forward to. However, as Lair has shown, each and every one of them will be put under an intense microscope of scrutiny and all individually be expected (although unfairly) to single handedly justify a 500-600 dollar purchase. This is why I believe most PS3 games regardless of quality going forward, wont receive the scores they may deserve.

    4. Halo and the 360 are big HERE, as in the US. Although halo has somewhat of a draw elsewhere, the majority of sales are here in the US. Same goes for the 360 itself, The majority of 360 sales are domestic. This is why sony isn’t worried about microsoft and the 360, because they haven’t yet managed to understand how to make their platform appealing to people outside the US. Especially when it comes to Asia, they have no clue.

    5. I’m tired, but lastly, I sincerely doubt that Halo proves to be any sort of nail in a ps3 coffin. It will sell well, but mostly to those who already have a 360 (since this was the game that most of them bought the system for).

  • Rena


    You make some very good points there

    4. A game does not make a system. Back when I got my PS2, it was my first gaming console and why I decided on that one had nothing to do with that it was out first or any title I had my eye on. What sold me the PS2 was actually the PS1 library. I looked at it, decided it had games I liked, based on that the PS2 would most likely have games I like, and I had a very wide selection thanks to backwards compatibility.

    All these later, I only have two PS3 titles. But not worried, as what have I mainly played on my new toy? KHII, FFXII, .hack//G.U. series and these last few weeks or so… the FF Chronicles release of Chrono Trigger actually. Time goes past, and collections change (FFC is actually the only PS1 games I own right now. Mostly I have PS2 titles, some PSP ones, and the two PS3 ones) so I’m not all that worried. I’m sure in the years to come Sony will provide plenty of nice stuff for this console ๐Ÿ™‚

    (This is not to say there isn’t exceptions. I got a DS *just* because the Phoenix Wright series was on it. But my DS Lite bundle only cost me 150 bucks, so I didn’t feel too bad about that for a series I knew would keep me entertained for more then a little while)

    3. XBOX is most aimed at a certain type of people. I… am not really one of those types of people. I normally am horrible at FPS, as you can guess from my list above have a preference for RPGs, and so on. Halo would most likely be the only FPS I’d bother getting- and I’d prefer to get it on the PC, because I’m about twenty times better there then any time I’ve tried to play it on a console. The XBOX was on the bottom of my list of consoles I wanted for the last gen, it just didn’t seem very aimed at what I liked.

    However, I do think the 360 is middle of my list right now- but that has more to do with I don’t like the Wii all that much actually. I’ve tried it, played it when friends had it or it was on demo- and yes, didn’t care for it very much at all (which makes me sad, as I do very much like Nintendo games and some of what they have coming out for the Wii). But still, there are some titles that make me light up a bit for the 360, so hmmm.

    Overall, even as someone who until around a month ago only had Sony gaming stuff, I’m tired of all the bashing too. I like what I like, and I’m open to all three consoles if they provide enough.

  • Kaddas

    Just Let us not to forget one thing that Playstation 3 is youngest consul in the market. On other hand Xbox 360 did not start with good games first, it took a while until Gears Of War arrived, then few great games followed.

    and lets just not forget the great games that are coming to PS3 Plus the Existing games Heavenly Sword as a great example.

    Final Fantasy XIII
    The Agency
    Metal Gear Online
    Metal Gear Solid 4
    R&C Future Tools
    White Knight Story
    Little Big Planet
    Eight Days
    Heavy Rain
    Socom C
    Killzone 2
    Eye of Judgement
    Tekken 6
    Final Fantasy Versus XIII
    Monster Hunter 3 (Working title)
    God Of War III (Working title)
    L.A Noire
    Resistance: Rise of Man (Working title)
    Battle Field Valkyrie: Gallian Chronicles
    DC Universe (Working title)
    Disgaea 3

    and @bobeotm No. 5 Is very ture.